(EP 20) Judy Cheung-Wood – Changing The Face Of Australian Skincare

I’d like to introduce you to Judy Cheung-Wood. She’s the CEO and founder of Skin B5, and we’ll hear a lot more about that in a minute. Judy and I have known each other for, since 2019, when she was in my very first CEO masterclass, and she’s gone from strength to strength since then. Judy, welcome. 

Good to be here.

It’s great to have you here. Great to chat again. So I wanted to just talk a little bit more about your story. I mean, It was an unusual start to come up with a fantastic nutraceuticals business. So tell me, what, what motivated you to, to do what you were doing? 

Um, since I was 12, I’ve always had skin problems.

Um, could be some rash showing up. Um, but obviously as a, as you getting into puberty, it becomes acne and it just never goes away. Um, it’s always, it kind of lived with it. I wasn’t kind of, um, at a point where it’s so severe that I have to, you know, take harsh medication, but it bothers me as a teenager, you’re self conscious.

Um, I guess, yeah, lived with it until I was in my. Early twenties and, um, when I was in uni. I try so many things. So by the time I got to uni, um, you know, with a bit of pocket money with your, uh, you know, with your part time job in between your classes, even I don’t have a lot of pocket money, I would spend all of it in expensive skincare or go walk into the department store because I figured if supermarket stuff doesn’t work, surely this expensive stuff would work.

So, um, so I’ve always got the interest in seeking a solution for myself and, um, you know, Yeah, I know, you know, I was a town planner, so a lot of people wondering, sorry, what? I was a town planner, . It’s kind of like the very complete opposite to beauty and, um, you know, health industry. Yeah. It’s kind a, you know, I, I work for the largest developers across, um, in the, in Sydney and US and New Zealand.

Um, it’s a fledgling gl. Um, you know, I was really good at what I was doing, so it was a complete. But I think a lot of people don’t realize that, um, when I was in school, I’ve always, um, the, uh, my marks are always the highest in the areas of biology and chemistry. So I’ve always got that natural, um, um, interest in those, um, areas.

Subject. So I guess it’s more of the reason why big town planning is more about pleasing my own family. Like, you know, get in my tradition or culture, but just a lot of Eastern culture, or they would expect, you know, you’re the child to get a stable job, professional job, you know, good earnings, good career path, but it was never really my passion.

So I guess, um, how this give me five all started was I was working in Sydney, Sydney at the time. And someone told me about a medical paper about Vitamin V five, you could treat acne and have a look at it. Have a look at it. And I, I did look at it and I thought, Hmm, I ne I have never taken any supplement in my life.

I thought, I eat very healthy. Um, I come from a, a family background where it is all about holistic, um, medicine. So I thought, surely I, I don’t need supplement. But I thought, but I thought about it. I, I’m still breaking out, so surely this. something I haven’t done. Um, so then kind of piqued my interest, I did some research, the paper looks good, the hypothesis looks sound, all the biochemistry chemistry stuff, um, looks, you know, very interesting.

So I was on a mission to search for vitamin B5 supplement, but there’s none around. There’s nothing. So I start Googling, um, obviously that was the start of e commerce. Most of the e commerce sites at the time that you can buy supplements is all overseas. So I looked at all the US sites and they all look home, um, homemade, dodgy.

I don’t want to put my body at risk. So I decided to go out and search for vitamin B5 supplement. across Sydney. Um, I was working near, um, Pitt street mall at the time. So I searched for all the health food stores and didn’t find anything until eventually I come across a GNC store, surprisingly, next to the fitness first gym.

So they’re actually mostly selling supplements for bodybuilders and people going to the gym, but I found vitamin B5 there, straight capsules. And I was so excited. I grabbed the whole shelf, literally the whole shelf. I was paying for it, I woke up to the counter, and the guy, um, he’s really buffed, obviously he works at the gym too, probably, he looked at me and said, Oh, um, I’m, I’m so excited.

Do you, are you also discovering the amazing power of vitamin B5? I looked at him and said, I’m pretty sure I’m using it for a different reason than you, you do. And I said, what do you use it for? Cause I’m curious. He said, Oh, it’s amazing for me to, um, give you energy. It makes me exercise longer, um, um, better and more stamina.

And he looked at me and said, what are you using it for? I said, skincare. Dude. That’s, that’s basically the start of it. I started taking, uh, following the hypothesis, uh, starting to basically start to take the supplement, um, within a month, my, my skin. Uh, I could obviously, if you look at yourself every day, you tend not to notice, but people around me starting to comment, they say, Oh, have you done something different to your skin?

It’s a lot. clearer, nicer. Then when I visited my mom, she was in Hong Kong at the time. She, she went from very critical of my skin with the last time I saw her, which is what Asians mom do to commenting on, Oh, you actually started to look after your skin. So that’s the moment I realized the world needs me.

This is what everyone else like myself searching for a solution is missing out on. Um, I think, I think that’s when I kind of, an obsession started to develop and I, I, I would call it epiphany because, um, it’s just something like, uh, I, the best way I could describe it is like a bomb went off in my head. I was, it was.

A complete obsession. I can’t think about anything else. And this is what I’m going to do. No one’s going to stop me. And obviously, but in transition has the reality is you could pay the rent and got to live. So I still need a full time job well paid. So, um, I basically, after work, I signed to a teamed up with a friend of mine and we decided to yeah, let’s go for it.

What do we need first? We need business plan, marketing plan, no idea, but financial projections. So I thought, okay, it’s time to start learning. So every single evening after work, I will go to the bookstore in the middle of Fifth Street Mall and basically, I bought heaps and heaps of books, a couple of piles of books in my bedroom, so a bit of a cliche, but I did start my business in my one bedroom apartment in Darlinghurst.

Um, but I, with that, we, between the two of us, we knocked out, um, uh, financials, a business plan, a marketing plan, and we said, right, Sounds like it looks like we can’t just start the business with a personal loan from a bank because you need that by stock and manufacturing as our maybe we need a and our plan was to launch straight into retail.

So all we need a couple of million dollars. So then I thought we’re going to find a couple of million dollars. And obviously that’s when, um, sometimes I look back, sometimes being naive and positive takes you a long way because I basically just like, right, we’re going to get some venture capitals and no one laughed at us.

So obviously someone from there, they’re kind of like, Oh, you can try. So I said, yep, I’m going to try. So I literally go and ring up different capitalists, um, VC firms and tell us I’ve got this great idea is going to set the whole acne treatment world on fire. You know, you got to look at it. The curious thing was, even though they said, make a million, a couple of million dollars first and come and see me, but I, and surprisingly and amazingly, no one actually said it’s a bad idea.

So that’s when I realized we’re onto something and I thought, this is encouraging. I mean, I’m expecting them to kind of close the doors and go make some money and come and ask for money. Um, but I said, great news is no one actually said we’ve got a stupid idea. 

Yes. 

So let’s make sure when give us some encouragement.

So. A the time, it was the start of this online platform showing up with angel investors offering, um, supporting, you know, businesses. And there was a, my partner at the time said, um, why don’t we just put it up, up there? That’s just, um, you know, um, we’ve done all our work. Why don’t we just get up there and pay a couple of hundred dollars fee and see what happens.

Lo and behold. I think it’s just a short week or something. We’ve got a doctor from Tasmania who owns a few medical centers contacted us. And obviously it was a complete shock. And he said, I really love your ideas. And I really want to see where you can take this concept, um, because we have no product.

It’s just ideas on paper. Um, so he came to Sydney, flew to Sydney and we, um, even though we didn’t have much money, we decided to take him to a fancy restaurant in Darlinghurst, first impression, right? So we thought we got to put on a show and dazzle him and it’s a fancy restaurant. Um, I even in my effort, laughed about it nowadays, in my effort to dazzle him, I even brought my Vitamin B5 capsules.

Because he questioned me, he said, oh, you know, why don’t we be five years, because he’s a doctor, he knows. It’s really bitter. How are you going to mask it? And I just grabbed my bottle out. I said, it’s not that bitter. So I pulled out the capsules, put it apart, put it straight into the water, drank it. And I said, see.

Yeah, it’s fine. So that was the length I got to, um, took to basically trying to impress him. And the good thing is I did impress him somehow. May not be through just a sheer idea. Maybe he just thought pure 

commitment, 

pure commitment and enthusiasm. So a couple of days later, he called up and said, Right. I do want to back you.

There’s 

good news and bad news. And which one do you want first? And I said, Oh, I’ll just give you the bad news first. So the bad, good news, we’ve become more palatable. Um, and he said, the good news is I want to back you, back you. And for the bad news is you won’t get a couple of million dollars. But he said, if you, I can offer you a hundred thousand dollars.

So if you can make it work, change your sales strategy, launch strategy, um, there you go. There you have it. You’ve got your 100, 000. 

So of 

course we’re not going to turn it down. Yes. Yes, let’s do this. And that was the start of it. So that, um, the first two years, obviously still holding down a full time job and trying to do this, but yes, that was the start.

start of it and become a long time obsession. 

So you brought the obsession to life. So tell us about what Skinby 5 is now. 

Skin B5 is basically, um, an alternative to medication. So when someone’s got a real acne problem, not, I’m not talking about some random breakouts, um, quite often they’ll try everything and they’re not, they’re only temporary solutions.

And, um, a lot of topical products on the market, you know, you can, you can even, you know, Probiotics nowadays, but it’s not really a lasting solution because acne is a very complex problem. So if someone’s got a very persistent problem, obviously, um, and it does impact them emotionally, mentally, um, it’s got a very strong, uh, mental health aspect to it.

Um, So then that’s when, um, a dermatologist may start off with some antibiotics, but nowadays the evidence is that it’s not, it doesn’t help and it contributes and you’re reluctant now because it contributes to the resistance problem that we have across the world. So obviously, then if a bit of probiotics doesn’t help or even topical, then the progression is that if they someone really needed to shut it down to save their mind, save their mental health.

Um, it, because acne is not a life threatening disease, but nonetheless got psychological, um, impacts. So they will prescribe isotretinoin, um, which is a very powerful, um, Very high dosage of vitamin A derivative, um, and it’s got quite well documented side effects, um, obviously depending on the dose, but nonetheless unpleasant side effects.

So I guess, um, what we’re offering is, is something is, is, It’s effective to be able to overcome, but the difference is that it’s not just a short term solution is actually have a lasting impact because it’s a supplement, you can actually take it higher dose to treat to, um, to get it under control, but you can actually treat it like a daily supplements that will not only resolve your skin problems, but it improves your immunity, gives you better energy.

Um, it, you know, because there’s a mix of bees in that too, it’s actually a net. naturally quite energizing for people feel happy that some people, um, some, some of my friends even say, What did you get? What did you give me? You give me happy feels that I’m obviously panic when I say, What did you give me?

But nonetheless, they said, I actually feel happy, feel good. So that that is the difference. Um, we’re offering not to say a solution. But it’s a solution that has a very strong aspect in wellness. So it improves your health at the same time. And that’s actually what underlies, um, why it’s an attractive treatment for a lot of our customers, especially parents, because parents don’t really want to put their kids at first option medication.

Um, and medication also, at some point you have to stop you. Then you have to, then eventually may come back. Then our customers always tell us they. They want a long term solution, um, after medication, they don’t give me around medication works, um, but I guess you people seeking alternative and holistic way.

So that’s what we offer. 

Yeah, right. So

what did your mum say? When you decided that you were going to stop being a town planner? 

Um, there was, I remember I delivered the news on the phone. And there was a very long pause. Um, and because I’m, I’m quite a intuitive person, I can already feel it. I feel it in, in my, I felt it in my being, her burning rage, but she, but knowing that she knew, she knew that I was a headstrong, headstrong person.

So she knew not to put me down straight away, but the long pause said it all. 

Yeah, 

and obviously I found out she wouldn’t say it to myself because knowing that I’m headstrong, just get into argument and she didn’t want to do that because we had a, we had a great relationship. Um, but then you can, you can keep that in other ways through, um, the things that she would say to her, um, her siblings, because she’s got a large family, a family of 12.

So, um, her, she’s very close to her siblings. So she would tell. Anyone, any sibling would listen that so disappointed with her, don’t know what she’s doing. She’s throwing her life away. Don’t know what to do. I’m so devastated, but I just have to block it off. I said, I don’t really, as long as it’s not saying to my face, I’m, it’s almost like there’s a bit of distance so I can ignore it, but nothing’s going to stop me.

Yeah. Wow. And so, um, your venture capital partner or your angel investor. He still in the business now? 

No, not anymore. He’s very supportive and he’s, he’s very, he just super is, um, I was really grateful for the guidance and, um, I, I guess the portent of the gave us how it came about that he’s not in our venture anymore, got nothing to do with him.

It’s just that you learn your first lessons on entrepreneur, entrepreneurship. naively thinking, Oh, just, just, just team up with your friends. And we both say, yes, let’s jump on it. You, you know, exactly. And you’re not really thinking, you know, are we, do we have our values aligned? Um, do we, are we have the same, do we have the same goals?

Do we even have the same vision? It was just like, yeah, let’s do it. But there’s no discussions of that. And I guess over time, um, we, I just realized we have, um, Very different way of, um, we’re completely opposite. Don’t get me wrong, but I think, you know, yes. And the startup team, you do need complimentary skills.

I mean, um, but there, uh, there’s actually, I should have mentioned this four of us, um, friend and the father was, um, who’s, I guess, providing guidance and then, uh, um, um, investor, um, but eventually it comes to a point where we, we realized the only way, um, that the business can carry forward because not, it was nothing’s happening 

where 

it came to a complete halt.

I would say, I would describe it as it was on a live support for almost a year. Um, so it got to a point where, what are we doing? Are we just planning ways? There’s no point in wasting anyone’s time. Um, but I knew if we would just keep the company, I, um, I would be the person who would be able to. take it to the next step.

Uh, so, um, with the support of my husband, he, he, he could see the testimonials coming through. Obviously he could see that I was struggling mentally at the time. I think part of being an entrepreneur, you, especially because I had a big shift of my,

Yes, it’s my and my, none of my friends understood what I, what I was doing and said, what are you going to do? And I skin cared or what? So it becomes a quite isolated emotionally and even socially. Um, so when the time, when the time comes to say, this is not working, it does have a, um, a At the time, I wasn’t actually thinking about it, but everyone that my husband was close to me, he could see that I’m struggling mentally, emotionally, because it was my, it was, it was my baby.

I was, it was, um, I basically gave everything up for it. So to get to that point where it’s not going anywhere on life support, uh, relationships, the partnership is not working out. It’s devastating. Um, but it kept me going because all the good things. Customers, I guess talking about the why, um, they, they were my driving force because I could see young girls, teenage teenagers.

They wrote me very heartfelt, sometimes without line breaks, just on and on and on, on talking about sharing their life story, how he impacted them, how, I mean, it sounds very dramatic, but they literally use the word your products changed my life. So I just felt like I couldn’t let it go because I could feel.

So many people will be, um, lost hope. So that’s actually, my husband, like, when I see them, I get excited. I share with him. So he’s seen, he’s seen them. So when he suggested, Oh, you know, maybe, do you, do you think, yeah, they will let you buy them out? And it never crossed my mind. But when he suggested that and I said, if we can make it happen, I said completely.

So I guess, you know, talking about negotiation skills and tactics, I do realize at the time, um, I could, I, it’s either buy them all up or if it’s just the investor saying, I just felt like at the time the politics of it, human politics, right? And, um, it won’t happen. So I actually privately talked to my investor and said, This is what I want to do.

I want to be able to, you know, basically run it myself and I want to take advantage of it. take back ownership and actually do something of this idea that I started. And he was very supportive. He said, look Judy, I would love to be part of the team and part of the journey. But if you think, um, having me letting go of my shares and stuff to you, it will facilitate the transition.

I would do it. So that was, and he, I was really grateful that he did that. So from that point on was, it was the shift transition. It was just shift transaction. So from a team to now I’m around. It’s got its own set of challenges. It has. Yes. It’s difficult trying to run a business by yourself. 

So tell me about that.

Tell me about the challenges and how you overcame them. 

I guess, um, it’s, there’s no one else. Cause there’s been a 

series of challenges along this journey. 

Yes. So on our own, what I’m going to do. So at the time I did have a business consultant, um, who gave me some strategic advice in terms of what channels to go to, how to, how to grow.

So at the, by that time we already have a website, but we can’t just rely on a couple of, um, emerging export business. So they, they very impressed with our products and then basically say, we want to start importing. So we’ve got those, the website to, um, export, um, partners, but we have no channels in Australia.

So that’s when he was, we hired him to give us some advice, uh, what to do, how to build the channels. Um, and basically, even I was on my own, I learned very early on the power of having surrounding myself with advisors who’s got experience and it’s got the knowledge to always give you guidance. And that’s when you’re, but still the reality is I’ve got to do everything.

So I literally did everything from website to optimization, to labels, designs, um, packaging, working with manufacturers, doing all the planning, doing financials, paying bills, everything. I guess that’s why it’s slow and obviously then not soon after that, my, my child came along too. So you’re kind of like everything takes even slower after she was born.

Um, um, and I think just, just before I actually, mother actually called me. Who was, who was a customer and tried to basically, she told me, I thought, oh, you know, it’s a customer call and call number of calls and said, I want to talk to you. So I spoke with her and she told me how the products are. Basically saved her daughter’s, um, life and mental health because she was on a downward spiral at the time, um, and there was an emerge, emergence of younger adults on social media, um, experiencing negative impact.

And when she was breaking out to, uh, it’s really impacting on her. Yes. Um, so she basically shared a story and I was obviously I was blown away. At the end of it though, she said, she asked me a lot of questions about how are you selling the products. I thought this is a strange question. 

It’s 

very strange.

Here is a question from a customer. She said, where are you selling? How are you selling? Do you have a sales team? And I was like, Oh, didn’t know what to say. And then eventually she said, actually, I would love to help you sell the products. Um, if you, if you would help me, I would love to be your sales threat.

Because you said, I worked in pharmacy before. I know how pharmacy works, even that it was a distance. So I was in, by the time we moved down to Melbourne, but she’s in Queensland. And we did have our first, um, Health distributors up in Queensland. So I thought, oh, maybe it is a sign. may, maybe, maybe that’s meant to be so basic.

Mind you, we looked for those things. Basically. 

I hired her , I hired her, and she was really, um, passionate and, um, pretty much my, my, um, number one advocate, not just as a, as an employee, but also brand advocate because she has. Very strong firsthand experience to share and she, she was very determined and she literally visit.

health food stores, pharmacy, anyone who would listen and naturopaths and basically knocking on doors. And, uh, we pretty much, um, the one we’re talking about challenges, one of them was a novel, great idea, but how do you know it works? Like how, where’s your proof? 

Yeah. 

And I thought, well, we don’t have a clinical trial, but it, we’re happy to offer you the, It’s free of charge.

You, you try it. Um, see for yourself, if you’ve got patients or customers or, um, or even sisters, brothers, um, try it, see how it works. And actually through a series of series of these seed nowadays are called seeding, um, build up a whole heap of, Testimonials and advocates, and they start to go tell the naturopaths about it.

They are, they all start to tell their, um, pharmacists about it. And actually through those series of word of mouth, we’ve, um, people starting to notice that existence and starting to think, Oh, maybe they’re onto something. 

Yeah. Yeah. So, so you started to get, um, you started to get some demand. How did you build a supply chain?

From, I guess, um, one of the ways I think is that I’m an all or nothing 

person. 

Yeah. I either do it or I own don’t do it will save my breath or save my time. Or if I want to do something from day one, I, I wanted to build this as a, um, global brand and never wanted it to be selling. Some, some people suggested me, Oh, you know, you’ve got a great product.

Why don’t you sell in the market? I said, absolutely. I said, not to say Mike is not a sales channel, but I said, not for my product, because I’ve got, I’ve got greater, um, ambition for it. Uh, so to build, so that’s when my talking about supply chain. That’s when I always have to have the mindset that I need, whatever I set up, it needs to be scalable.

So the first thing I did was obviously local manufacturing, not, um, local manufacturing meant that the supply chain is pretty short. We don’t have to, and I teamed up with the best in the industry. That’s why I always believe in, if you want to build something in solid foundation, you go work with the best.

So I worked with the best formulators, I worked with the best, Um, basically nutritionist, I work with the best manufacturer to get my, bring my products to life. Um, and packaging that used to be come from China, but over time I realized that’s where you create a lot more complexity and risk in the supply chain.

And slowly, slowly I Also, I work with local partners, if I can, and when it comes to warehousing, same, same concept, I don’t go for the biggest 3PL because I’ve had experience with them and you just becomes a little guy that lowest in priority. So I learned to also work with people who, um, they, the professional, they know what they’re doing.

They’ve got the capabilities and they’ve got the technology. How to fulfill online orders as well as B2B orders, um, but they, they, um, You’re still talking to them. Yes, we can build relationships with the owners. We can have a conversation. I can just pick up the phone and there’s an issue, it’s urgent, and they will go out of their way to help me.

So, um, a lot of these things. Do help minimize the risk in my supply chain. Yeah. And obviously, um, all the typical things like forecasting, making sure the stock is available. I think as a startup, we’ve all learned our lesson. We run our stock because we didn’t forecast it correctly. 

Yeah. 

And those lessons, uh, no one wants to repeat because you literally sit there, you’ve got no products, nothing to sell.

You sit there twiddling your thumb waiting for the product to come before you can invoice anyone. Those are those. Very stressful. 

Yeah. And so, uh, one of the, um, one of the challenges that most emerging and growing, fast growing businesses. Uh, face is that of cash flow. So was that a challenge for you on your journey?

Constant. 

Um, especially we have a very big working capital need because you need to make the products before you can sell it. So that’s sucked, sucked up a lot of the cash flow. Um, it, it meant that we couldn’t, couldn’t really, uh, put the a lot into marketing. So, and obviously we just have to, um, I guess make, make sure that we have, we’re making ends meet.

And we, um, earlier, earlier on, we’ve got obviously family to support the cashflow. We had to see an investor the early days. And then, um, then later on, when I was on my own, we obviously using bank facilities, I even had used, um, uh, EMDG, but I think a lot of, um, from what I’ve heard, a lot of the startups made the same mistake when you already have exporting early days, you use it up way too early.

Um, you should, we should wait it, but all of these, but nonetheless, it helps the cashflow. Um, yeah. Um, even the, um, The export grounds when we have an export the epic export, um, working capital facility. I try that too. And the bank working capital support and more and more recently, um, actually from the JV with, um, our six pharmaceutical and now the BG group is one of the largest pharmaceutical group in the country.

Um, and they obviously help inject some cash to help us grow as well. So which I’m very, very grateful of. 

Fantastic. And so, Vitamin B5, um, often consumed in capsule or tablet form. How did you develop your product range? 

So I They’re 

just capsules and tablets now? 

At the beginning, um, yes, our very first products are even in powder form.

I don’t know. I’m not, I’m not sure why we thought powder would work. We had so many challenges. It tasted so good. We tried to sell it mango and strawberry flavored. I still remember the, the packaging, it’s been so good. Daggy thinking back now, but it’s got a mango and strawberry on the front beak to make sure people understand it’s, it tastes nice, just like your smoothies, not, 

not, 

so obviously from there you learn, we learn lessons, you know, as much as I hate the concept of, you know, Swollen tablets, but that’s the only way that we’re working with it with the formulators and say, well, there’s many reasons you need to have it on our tablets because, you know, um, vitamin B5, vitamin B’s and including B5, they’re highly unstable.

So you do need to encapsulate it and protect it and doing this and doing that. And. That’s how we transition into from a powder to drink into a tablet. So then actually that’s when we’re starting to realize, Oh, you know, people are struggling with acne. They actually also struggling with, you know, topical skincare.

It’s really hard to find something that works for them. So we just, I will, the natural extension would be a bit of a routine, um, based. And part of my thinking was also, um, we, um, actually also at the time, Developed a proprietary formula. So it’s not just vitamin B5, um, through kind of trial and error, trial and error, like scientifically refined, what are the combination of ingredients that actually have great efficacy results through amplifying, um, each of the ingredient amplifying each other.

For example, we added a higher dose vitamin B3, like now you hear about all the time relating to the skin health, integrity, anti inflammation, even, you know, reversing some of the cellular damages, but we, we adopted that high dose approach very early on, but also folic, folic acid, Biotin to boost additional stuff to boost, but not on its own with limitation, but amplify each other, like even collagen producing boosting ingredients, like, um, silica and copper to help regenerate the skin.

So from day one, we always, um, always wanted this to be a, truly a complex, not just a single facet formula. I want it to be, I guess, probably comes from my, um, you know, I’m lazy. I don’t want to take so many different supplements. I just want to have one that will have multiple impacts on my skin. So not only resolving my acne, but it will also help my, um, my skin to regenerate and resolve scarring over time because you keep help turning over your skin cells and boosting the, uh, the, uh, the growth cell division and also making you feel good.

You can take it. There’s a. Um, supplements, so I ended up patented the formulation. I got the patent, Australian patent in 2015. Uh, and that, and that obviously, um, I never had the mindset that, Right now I’ve got a patent. If anyone tries to copy me, I’m going to sue the hell out of them. Because I’m realistic.

I know there’s no way you can single your cash into, you can’t, you just, you can’t have that mindset thinking you sue your way to scare your competitors away. So. Out of that need to create more complexity in the range. So not rather than just relying on complexity in one product. That’s where we signed at other products to create a routine.

So to, to, to create a, I guess, a more intellectual property into it. I will always put a bit of time and not just announcing care. We’ve pre put our thought into, um, it’s got the, won’t be like the skincare product. Won’t be like any other treatment products because it’s supposed to work to support it. And, um, enhanced efficacy of our supplement, which is a leading treatment product of the skincare products all about restoring soothing the skin, healing the skin, um, help the skin, um, kind of rebalance and protect the skin.

Skin barrier. 

Mm-hmm. 

So that’s actually how we start extending the rain. Right. So, uh, 2019, um, that’s when we also added super food. 

Yes. 

Uh, in just before covid. And it is also out the need that at uh, at the time there’s an explosion of, um, super food and I started taking some myself. Yeah. ’cause I, I started taking supplement, uh, and spirulina is, it was more of my go-to super food.

I, I love it. So then I, but then you starting to realize, Oh, you know, I’ve bought, I went to health food stores, I would have come out with five different products. I have the greens, then I have the super fruits, which is the reds and the rainbow colors. And then I have a collagen one, then I, probiotic started to become a thing.

I have another probiotic. So 

all of a 

sudden it dawned on me. Oh, exactly. I spent 300 bucks. It’s just gathering dust because I just too busy. Like, so when, when my staff member said, we got to extend the range, we got to include superfood, I said, the only way that I would do it, if, is that if I can come up with a all in one formula, because I said, if I’m not going to take it, no one else will, I said, it has to be a, um, easy to adopt top products.

And, um, so I’ve talked to, um, really highly qualified nutritionists and said, if we’re going to do that. Is it possible? I said, I want to have it all in one. And she said, well, it’s going to be, it’s not going to be cheap, but it’s possible. So she, she basically, um, I said, she said, what ingredients do you want?

And I said, um, this is not, it’s another story. Um, which is where I used to go when I was in the U S I had so much time and I’ve read. so many holistic health nutrition books. So I’m starting to kind of gather all my knowledge from that period where I get, I had nothing else to do and read all these books.

And I thought, wow, I do have an idea what I want in it. So I sent her a big long list. I said, these are the ones I want, I must have in the formulation and the rest, um, you can make suggestions. And that’s how I got the superfood into. 

Fantastic. So, so. That’s quite a, uh, uh, would you say it’s a narrow range, but it actually is, is, it’s all consistent with the theme of how do we actually improve the skin wellness, um, and support the people who need it the most.

Yeah. 

Yeah. Correct. We kept it tight because it’s, acne is still a niche and you, you can’t really have, you many, many products. Um, don’t get me wrong. I did have, at one point I thought, Oh, I should, I should have all these products too, because I was watching at the time Proactiv has gone into the Australian market and they were rapidly ramping up all their range, starting from the cleanser, moisturizer, and all of a sudden, you know, before I know it, you see, Makeup powders, you got, um, solutions, you got cream, you got this and that.

And I thought, Oh, maybe, maybe I should be doing that too and get more revenue from more products. But then when I was contemplating it, I quickly also saw them. Obviously didn’t work. And the range went from explosion of maybe 20, 30 skew. Um, Went back to just a narrow range. And I thought, Oh, maybe I am onto something, just keeping it narrow.

Obviously more from a practicality reason is to kind of make it a range that I can, I can manage with minimal human resources. I don’t want to create such a big complexity that is going to kind of fall over. 

Yeah. So tell me about building a team. Because you wanted to, to keep it something that was controllable and manageable.

So how did you go about building your team and what were the challenges? 

Um, I think it goes back to very early days. I considered the my business model and I decided very early on that I wanted to keep it a very lean. And very, um, and very tight team. So I looked at, I researched and looked at many different, is it possible?

Like, is it possible to build brand with just minimal, a lot, a minimal amount of people and not kind of have a, you know, a big team to manage also comes from my natural inclination. I’m my managing people is not my, favorite thing to do. So I tried to find ways to keep it as lean as possible. So my thinking was I want, um, I want, um, I guess drivers in a team, not passengers.

So as I identified things that I believe I could outsource and, and adapt into changing conditions very quickly without having to, um, because the hiring and final process is not easy. It’s very difficult. Time consuming, emotionally really draining for me. So I, so I, my philosophy, yes, and the philosophy is, if anyone’s going to join the team, they have to be, um, they, uh, very good, In their own, uh, in, with a certain set of skill sets and together we have complimentary skill sets.

Uh, and I, I don’t, I actually quite, um, enjoy having debates and, um, civilized discussions. And I don’t take anything personally, like we just, let’s just have a discussion, solve problems. So I actually, and I always say, treat, I’m not above you. Are we all equals? I need you to contribute as much as, um, I contribute to a team and I would listen the same.

It’s not about just about my ideas. I want to hear your input too. So, um, you things like, um, logistics outsource, uh, what I did, what I absolutely didn’t want to outsource is customer relationships. So a customer relationships, absolutely. So, because some people was, Oh, why don’t you just outsource the customers, uh, you know, all your inquiries, the customer services that no way, because I need to own that and, um, the relationship and the loyalty and also hear the feedback from the customers.

But, uh, but early days, if we don’t have the capabilities, we will identify, um. Sometimes short term contract based, project based, um, hiring very good people that consulting basis. Um, but then we hired sales, um, and marketing at the time we needed, needed it. Um, and, uh, and also, uh, then later on, I, we also need someone to manage the pharmacy channel.

Yeah. Uh, because we, I was actually amazed looking back, again, naivety sometimes, you know, makes you, um, makes you, um, Kind of charge along and you’re done. Getting into the pharmacy wholesalers. I mean, looking back and now what people tell me, it’s actually very, very difficult thing to do, to be accepted and even staying there.

So I basically, I did it, um, all just were from a very small four team of four of us, finance, accounting, sales and marketing, and then, um, the account management, key account management, and then myself. And then the rest of it will be consulting coming, coming in at different stages. Like I had Grant Thornton, um, the GSD team, um, retail specialists helping with the pricing strategy and pricing modeling, um, and to make sure that we take into account all the true costs of doing business in different channels.

Uh, that’s really helpful. Uh, and I had a strategy, so, um, strategy consultants, um, and also, uh, they’re not going to the. Entrepreneurs program and obviously had a visit advisors and Mike, so he was really, really good. And, um, it’s genuinely trying to help and, um, I’ve got so much time to give me and I’m really, really grateful.

So through these, um, I guess, advisors and consultants along the way really helped, helped us, even a small type team, we were able to move forward. Yeah. and build something. 

Yeah. Well, you have. And so, um, skepticism.

How did you handle educating a market where you had glowing references from your customers, the consumers, but to get to your consumers, you had to have distributors who Frankly, you already had a full set of acne treatment ranges, whether or not they’re effective or not irrelevant. There must have been a fair amount of skepticism.

How did you handle that? 

A lot of skepticism. A lot. Um, again, I, my, we, we started overcoming by just saying, because acne is such a common skin condition, you can always find a colleague, a family member, somebody to work with, your boss, someone is struggling something at some stage, you know, it could be their teenage kids.

But even as an adult, some people actually suffering themselves could be signed from late 30s and in the 40s, hormonal changes. So there’s always someone, there’s always a subject who could benefit from my product. So, um, we just, whoever was willing to try, um, obviously we, we have, if you have a target, let’s say, Oh, we need to be present buyer.

Yeah. We 

signed to seed people around them. 

Yeah. 

Try the products. And obviously, when they see the amazing results, they all become my best advocate. So, they were saying, you gotta, we gotta help, you know, this brand to get into wholesalers. So, one by one, we, we managed to, um, um, get the, get the, um, Their audience to listen to our pitch and obviously they’re still remember my first meeting with Sigma.

Oh, my goodness, they asked us to go pitch with them. And I said, Who’s going to be in the meeting? And I looked at it. They’re all the big guns. Why are they all here? Why are they all here? Talking about skepticism. So one of the, um, the big guns, Um, basically the manager, the retail merchandise manager, she’s, she’s, uh, uh, uh, uh, then I bring it by hired a consultant who came from a pharmaceutical industry.

I said, first, I need a crash course. You’ve got to tell me all the jargons and how it works and all those things. So she gave me a crash course. Then I said, you have to come to a meeting with me. I said, I’m very scared. Um, and she came and supported me. So. When they walked in, skepticism, I saw her, my brochure that we sent her, along with the samples, full of scribbles, full of, she’s doing, she’s done her homework, she’s got lots of questions, so basically, you know, hammering questions, left, right, center.

And I don’t even remember what I said. You’re just in that zone of answering questions. Um, but then at the end of the meeting, I said, how did it go? I said, I don’t know. I’m not sure. I don’t know. I don’t even know what I said. Um, but then later on they said, yep, we’re going to take you on. So I guess there must be something they, they recognize.

Um, And later on, I think, as maybe I realize, I think it’s the emergence of people kind of you have holistic or the consumer is actually demanding holistic solutions for something like, um, treatment, because Conventional treatments are harsh, um, and a lot of people are looking for alternative. So there’s a bit of, um, just same as I’m always, I was always amazed, amazed.

The people who bought my products right from the beginning, like day one, launched my website. I even laughed because I said, my banner looks like I’m selling toothpaste, 

but 

because we’ve got big, smiling people, stock photos and with teeth showing so much in bright, shining light. Yeah. But they still bought my products and I thought it’s hard to think of you.

What is that? There must be a, um, a level of desperation in the psyche that drives them to, it’s an unknown brand. Yes, it’s made in Australia, but no one knows who we are. Um, they’re willing to try and put their, this is talking about ingestible, they’re willing to put, um, the, the, uh, what we have to offer into the body in, in, uh, in the quest, yes, in the quest for, to resolve the skin problem.

So I guess, yes, it’s skepticism, but I. It’s the, it’s the customers leading the charge in my story that helped overcome a lot of skepticism. 

Absolutely. Well, I guess going a step further, I mean, general practitioners and, and specialists, dermatologists. I mean, in the era that we are in now of the six minute medicine, you know, to prescribe reacetone or something else like that, um, is the easy solution.

Um, how have you been able to deal with, um, You know, the need for clinical trial data or, or, you know, they’re quite a change resistant bunch. I would have thought. 

Yeah. Um, this is really surprising where there is, um, there is, I think, obviously it’s also time. I think the, maybe, you know, 10 years ago, there’s a lot more skepticism in holistic health.

But I think fast forward nowadays, um, you know, The amazing thing was Asian dermatologists, maybe because of the cultural background where holistic medicine is a thing. Uh, so they embrace it without a lot of questions. Obviously, we’ve got medical papers to show the efficacy of vitamin B5. So they looked at it and actually embrace it without a lot of questions.

So they’re 

early adopters. And now we’re starting to have leading dermatologists that we work with in, in Australia. Um, Basically share, also have knowledge of how vitamin B especially can work well for the skin. Like you, you see, um, um, dermatologist talking about vitamin B3 for, you know, to help prevent skin cancer.

Um, and, and then vitamin B5. So when I was looking at, um, doing clinical trials, I was talking to Professor Ronnie Sinclair and he looked at the, he said, I said, I’m looking to do a clinical trial. And I said, he said, do you have any information about, uh, your hypothesis? And I said, yes, some, there’s some existing clinical data on vitamin B5.

I would love, and he said, if you send it to me, let’s have a look. So I was sitting in his office again, very nervous. Cause I’m talking to a leading dermatologist. I was getting ready, embracing myself. For, um, you know, comments and questions and that may not be able to answer because I’m not a dermatologist.

Uh, but when he was looking through the, um, the, the papers and looking at the results and he, he actually did say, he said, I think I can do that run the trial for you. Um, because he said, you know, um, If it looked at the data, the information, if we think we’re not going to get a good results for you, we’re not going to ask you to waste your money, knowing that you’re just not going to get the results that you were hoping for.

So that’s actually where I realized, okay, there was a group of dermatologists really supportive when it comes to holistic medicine. So, so that’s, that’s when, what, what is the same evidence that we use now, um, to talk about efficacy, 

uh, 

and yes, uh, uh, we, um, we actually are embarking on a journey of working with dermatologists, what we call leading dermatologists to help, um, I guess educate, um, obviously they, they have to believe it themselves first, but yeah, we’re on a, on a journey to, um, but there are, I think the, the current dermatologists, they’re quite a lot more open minded.

Logistics, uh, um, customer experience, um, uh, finance, um, reporting. So how did you get on top of that? I mean, just doing everything doesn’t work. Um, and there’s not enough hours in the day and you’ve got a family. Um, and you’ve actually got to have a life as well, although that’s questionable for most entrepreneurs.

Um, their, their business often becomes their life. 

Yes. 

So, so how did you, um, how did you distill down what were the things that were the real priorities for you? 

I do because it is overwhelming. So I guess, you know, um, that’s where, that’s why the, the, when I joined your course, the critical view concept really resonated with me because I think intuitively I realized, um, I can’t do everything.

It’s so overwhelming that I don’t have enough time. I have a young child, um, and my husband’s job takes him away all the time. So it means that not only. I’m solely running the business, also solely managing my household. Um, so that, uh, you’re forced to, you’re so overwhelmed. Sometimes you’re kind of paralyzing because you don’t know what to do.

And you’re running around with chicken without head. So, um, I decided to intuitively realize I just have to, and I was just, I started reading books about techniques of what to do. And one of the things that I started doing is also just to, I can’t do everything. Just take a deep breath, one thing at a time.

So obviously when you sit down and thinking, you know, if I, today I can do a couple of things that I would enable my business to move forward. Um, then I would just focus on getting those two things done and the rest I can, you know, I can basically maybe take my time to do it. So for example, even down to day to day.

When I take my emails, I always make sure I prioritize emails of other people waiting for me for information to do to complete their. 

Bit of 

work. So they come first. So I have to give them what they need to continue on their work. So it’s kind of like a visualize in my head. It’s like, I’m spinning all these plates.

I can’t let those plates stop. So when it goes to my email, I said, these guys, I can’t let them down. They have to keep spinning the plates. Yes. Then I can have a bit of breather to do other things. 

So, so delegation is an essential part of what you do then. 

Yes. So that’s why, um, getting better at, I wouldn’t say I’m the best because, uh, at delegation because I still have that tendency because I thought, you know, is it easier to do it myself?

It’ll just be faster. 

Because it’ll be faster. By the time I write my feedback, I’ve probably already done it myself because I’ve done everything myself. Yeah. It’s not like I. Don’t know how to do it, 

but 

obviously, like in the spirit of delegation, I was like, yeah, I could stop yourself, Judy, you’ve got to let other people do it.

So, so then you say, okay, this is how you need so much patience. I am a, I tend to be impatient. So I, over time. I learned to control my urges and become patient and letting people, um, time to not just time to learn, but time to do things so I can delegate and also time to, I guess, let them take it all in and develop.

Um, it needs a, yeah, it needs a lot of patience and also being able to articulate, um, because I’ve got so much in my head and some of those early days is, um, my, of science, you realize, This people stressed and you kind of wonder why people stress. So why the stress? So I should bring a consultant in. And I said, I think everyone is it’s really stressed.

I said, you know, I think we need to, um, improve our dynamics. And as I said, this is free for all you can give me any feedback you want. You know, I said, I was going to get a facilitator in to kind of draw out from people. Um, what is not working? Thank you. And one of the things that they realize is that because I’m operating is all in my head.

I’ve got a very clear idea of what I want to do and how it’s going to be done and the pathway. So it’s clear in my head. But I think you, you lost sight that other people can’t see what’s in your head. So you’re not communicating because I’m, I tend to be the headstrong one. So you’re not actually articulating your thought process and your logic behind things and you show up, you will show up when I said, right, this is what we’re doing.

And they, they want to feedback was so, I guess, um, and illuminating is that and so telling, I said, I have no idea where we’re going. Because, um, the goal post is always shifting and I, I was shocked, I said, what do you mean? I said, in my mind, the goal is exactly the same. We just have different ways of going about it.

Exactly. 

But in, so then I realized, um, this is where the goals of the business mentor at the time helped coach me. I need to actually spend time. Articulate my thought process. Uh, so I get, I’m getting better now. So to articulate my thought process. And so, you know, obviously it is an art to bring people on board with your ideas and bring people along with the journey and they understand what you’re doing.

So, um. It’s getting a lot better now, delegating, delegating and executing. 

Delegating and communicating effectively and, and I find that this is the norm with so many of my clients. You know, they start off as a sole practitioner in their business. They might be the artisan, they might be the tradie, um, uh, they wake up one day and they’ve got five or eight or 10 people.

And, you know, the most common. complaint that their staff have is, we don’t know where we’re going and we don’t know what you’re going to focus on this week. And it’s not that the goalposts have changed. It’s just simply that, as you said, um, they know in their own mind exactly where they’re going and how they’re going to get there.

They’re spending a lot of their time sort of racing forward and looking back saying, can you catch up? And their response is, yeah, we’ll catch up to you. We’ll take you anywhere. Uh, just let us know where we’re going this week. 

And you have to hold the temptation, if you can’t catch up, then hmmm. 

Yeah, and, and, and, and it’s, and it’s, sadly, it’s actually as frustrating for the leader as it is for the actual followers.

Because there is this gulf in between of, okay, so why is what we’re doing here actually leading us in this direction? And why are we going in that direction? Oh, we’re still going in that direction. Um, Yeah. So, uh, you’re not alone in that. 

And that’s actually one of the things that, um, Yeah, that new comment.

You’re not alone. I really appreciate it much. Um, being in your CEO masterclass because it was, uh, you’ve been running your own business, a lonely place. And when things are not going the right way, I think we’ll all take it a bit personally. And they’re taking very hard on ourselves. And why is it, why is this problem happening to me?

Like, does it even, you don’t know? Cause we, I was thinking most of the time, You’re so busy, you’re not talking to anyone else or any other fellow business owners. So being in the class, then all of a sudden people are openly sharing in a safe space. Um, the challenges and I guess normalizing it, it helps a lot.

It takes off that mental load that you’re not alone. And I did use your, during your classes, especially during COVID, I think it was really challenging for everyone mentally, um, and for the businesses too. I used a lot of your critical view to keep the. The team focused, um, and, and every week I would say, okay, this is what we’re doing, focusing on these two, but what are the action that we were achieving, we’re trying to, um, you get done this week, each of us, we’re going around, we go go around each of us, what are you going to do to make sure there’s alignment and that we all doing something towards same goal, not kind of, you know, Jumping around doing different things that they think is important, but it’s not important 

for the goal.

Mm. Mm. So how have you now addressed the loneliness issue? 

I, um, I talk a lot more, um, I go and share network and share experiences with other entrepreneurs. I think now I’ve learned enough to know whatever the challenge is, it’s, it’s okay. Like it happens to every business is part, part of the growing pain is part of the journey.

And you try to be a bit more philosophical about it and try to learn from it rather than focusing on. Not going right. This is a Why is this happening? It’s not about me. Yeah, yeah, it’s not about It’s more direct. Yes. 

Yeah, well done. And along the journey, you’ve collected, um, um, not only have you defeated some of the skepticism, but you’ve actually been awarded in a number of ways.

Tell me a little bit about the things that you’re proud of. 

Um, very proud of my awards, but I think there’s, you know, I, I love these awards. I think now people will encourage people don’t have this imposter syndrome. It’s not healthy. You, you shouldn’t be thinking that way, but I think most of us do that.

Yeah. You, you got to a point where I’m, I’m pretty sure, you know, People embracing my products, surely I’m doing something right. But you always have this, um, kind of like a little shadow man talking to yourself in the back of your head and thinking, Oh, you know, you know, maybe you’re 

really good. Are you 

really, are you really 

deserve to be here?

So I, but, um, out of other people encouraging, I thought actually more trying to do it for the business. Surely, you know, um, we want to establish ourselves as a, um, yeah. Genuine. Um, we have something good that we were doing. We are authentic. We’re not just another come and go product, not another hype. So we have to start thinking about, you know, um, getting some recognition.

So early days, I basically say, yeah, I’m going to start. Give it a go, put it in, but, um, put my application in, but I never thought I would get it, but I thought it was just practice. So when, when I got the first award, second award, I thought, um, Oh, so people do recognize what I’m doing that is innovative. So you kind of start to, Oh, maybe, you know, we are doing something right.

And then I guess one by one, you start to realize, yep. Um, if there’s an opportunity, it’s a genuine award. We put people behind it. research and I’ll put my application in and I’m very proud to say that we’ve got such a big collection of award now. And we can truly say that we are, well, are the most awarded skin wellness brand.

Um, it does, uh, it does help your confidence to have other people independently looking at your, um, what you’re doing and give you the, um, confirmation that you are doing something right. 

Yeah. You know, that, that, uh, imposter syndrome, whilst it’s unhelpful, it is so prevalent amongst entrepreneurs and, um, really successful, driven people.

And, and I think that actually it is one of the painful as it is, it’s actually one of the important parts of high achievers is that it actually helps drive them. To continue to prove themselves as being good enough. And in fact, when they’re trying to achieve good enough in their own mind, actually it’s excellence in everybody else’s mind.

Yeah. Um, it was a very interesting comment. I never, never really think about it that way, but it’s, it’s a very good way to seeing it. My husband always says to me, is it you not celebrating the wins enough? Because I’m, um, the moment I, I, I, I. Chief something. Um, I was like, right, still not good enough. I need to next and he’s always say, sorry, we’re going to celebrate and said, celebrate what he said.

This is definitely worth celebrating. And then I’ll kind of, kind of, um, reluctantly comply. I can find and go to the end of the day. Let’s go out for dinner. Let’s go away somewhere. But there, but I was constantly thinking about, no, this is so, surely there’s room for improvement so I can do better. Yeah.

There’s other things I can do better. Yeah. And yeah, people can do better. Everything can be better. There’s no such thing as perfection. 

No. And that’s, that’s right. There is no such thing as perfection, uh, and it’s unachievable, is it? 

No. I think, um, I do now accept that there’s no such. And, and. Less harsh on myself and less harsh on other people too, um, because I, I think part of the creating stress on yourself and creating stress on other people is that you, your constant amount of perfection.

Um, because it’s not, it’s always something going wrong, like that you, it’s always, Oh, and I’ll tell you a funny story of things going wrong all the time. Trade show, one of my first trade show, second trade show in Cosmoprofit, Hong Kong. Um, so enthusiastic and we’ve got a big booth, uh, going in with Austrade.

I’ve got done, I spent so much time, polished all my, um, uh, my materials and make sure they look so professional, like with a, like a, um, bright white copper folder with a silver. Logo and then with a beautiful, perfectly blue tagline. And I say, this has got to be perfect. And then I showed up in Hong Kong, the printer delivered the, um, the folders and we all say, yep, they were going to put brochures in.

I looked down and I was completely shocked. My tagline says clean skin. Supposed to say clean skin from within. I realized the printer decided clean is not the right word because it was in Hong Kong. I decided not to print it in Hong Kong so it delivered locally. He changed it to clean. Clean skin from within.

Not clear. 

Oh, I could feel it. I felt, I felt my heart sunk down to the bottom and I’ve got 20, 000 friends here. And I thought, this is bad. I said, this is bad. And I turned white and he was coming to help me with a trade show consultant at the time. And his wife, what’s wrong? 

This is terrible. 

Is it clean?

Then he said, Oh, there’s nothing we can do. The trade show starts next week. Tomorrow we have to do it. And they’re trying to ignore it. And the amazing thing was Not a single person noticed that. Not a single person. I was amazed. It was just you. I know. It was just me. So I guess those, those are one of the moments I recognize you is often my, uh, the person like ourselves, you, you so nitpicky and perfection that you exaggerating the problems and creating so much.

Stress that when you don’t have to, no one actually noticed that not a single person is a great father. They’ve been commenting on like, sometimes I get nervous as don’t put, run your fingers through the tagline because you see it, but they just flipping through it. I love your photo. It looks great. And I was trying to put my hand over it, obscure the obscure it somehow.

But no one saw it. No one, not when, even after I brought the whole thing back to Australia, because I’m not about to write them all off and waste more money. No one here in Australia noticed it. We just kept going with it until it finished. 

Fantastic. So, Jeannie, tell me, if you reflect on, on your journey, what would you say are the top three learnings that you’ve come from so far?

Um, the top three learning, I think it’s, um, you have to back yourself and believe in yourself because early days, my, my colleagues, my talent planning colleagues didn’t believe, didn’t have no idea what I’m, what I was doing. My family is questioning that I’m throwing my life away. And no one, because of the novel treatment.

Basically, there’s no validation and there’s no, no one believed, um, what you have on paper could work. There’s so much uncertainty. So, um, but the only way for me to move forward was I have to block off all of that, um, believe in my own vision, but not naively. I, I’ve obviously observed different validations here and there, enough information for me to think I’m onto something.

But the rest have to put my blinkers on, um, and back myself and confidence. I’m obviously don’t get me wrong. You have your highs and your heavy lows, but then you have to kind of, um, during your lows, you have to be able to pick yourself up again 

and 

keep moving. Um, and resilience, um, it’s a, it is a thing that you need to have in, um, yeah.

And also the art of communication. I think the, the communication, I think it’s almost like a. Nowadays, I think people value a lot more. Uh, but early days as a town planner, I still really appreciate it for my old boss. Then she was, she owned a consultancy. It’s one of the top agencies, a town planning agency in Sydney, uh, work on with the biggest project.

So one of the things that she was so progressive, um, in the way she built the team was, uh, uh, was that she actually, every month brought in a communication coach, um, to Friday afternoons. Everyone has to be in the room. Um, once a month, you have a consultant come and facilitate. How do you communicate? How do you communicate effectively?

Everyone just hated it. You know, some people twiddling their thumbs, some people just rolling their eyes, some people just kind of sit there and just get through it, just get through it. Um, 

survive it. 

Yes. But I always thought there’s, I’m open minded. I’m one of those people, I’m very open minded. I just, you know, let’s just be open minded.

You know, I’ve learned something good from it. So I never really understood it. The, the, um, importance of it then until when you’re running your own business, you realize, um, it’s everything, it’s everything, communication, um, your written communication, the way you, um, communicate to people differently based on their temperament, um, the way you obviously even for marketing, marketing, it’s all communications, you, how do you articulate your messages?

Um, I mean, you know, how do you, how do you convince people, even your own team, um, how To buy into your ideas is all communications and communications go both ways to the miscommunications. Um, some people laugh at me. They say, you’re always a person trying to smooth things out. But I said, I’m actually not trying to smooth things out, but that I, I just developed a habit of trying to see both ways.

That’s both sides, because you actually, if you put yourself in someone else’s shoes, you may actually sign to see. Where the conflict and disagreement comes from, because it’s simply that we sometimes it’s as simple as it was just arguments, arguments and Not to do this, don’t do that. And when I should just, I’m sitting in middle, listening both sides openly, they actually talking about completely different things.

So that, and they talk, believe that they’re talking about the same thing. So they’re the people with the budding heads. So communication is huge. Yeah. Um, I think the third person, the third thing is, Do surround yourself with the best people and advisors, um, that you can trust to give you, um, not only honest and obviously, um, sound advice, but also ethical advice because you, you, you do need people who’ve got your best interest in heart.

But not in a selfish way, 

but 

also the broader community’s interest in how to do the right thing because it’s important to me to do the right thing. Um, that, that’s one of the reason why, you know, I think nowadays with the explosion of social media, There’s actually a lot of missing misinformation, uh, and there’s a lot of people, things that I could see people actually making things up, but it’s so good that the making up of messages is so good that normal consumers can’t even, can’t, um, can’t just tell the difference, you know, um, by myself trying to do all the right thing and stay on the ethical path all the time can have its disadvantages.

Yeah. But, but then, but you’ve got to live with 

yourself. Exactly. 

At the end of the day, it is, is it, is it about the short term gain or is it about leaving a legacy behind? 

Exactly. And, and making a real contribution is such an important thing. How did the masterclass change you as a leader? Yeah. 

I think it really helps by going to your plan, like actually plan things out in a structured way.

Because if you’re busy running around, it’s all in your head. You’re actually not putting it on paper. And I do very much appreciate when, when you’re going through the course with you and you actually get us to write things down and even the five year plan, the financials, how it’s supposed to look like and how, how, um, those things are very powerful because it makes you realize, uh, and be able to hold in.

Oh, at the end, actually, and don’t need to fuss too much about my very, um, the expenses, the fixed cost expenses, because that is, it is not, that is not the bulk of where, um, the expenses is, I should be tweaking this instead, like, like, for example, selling more, um, Rather than focusing on that, rather than trying to nitpick every line of expenses.

How can I save money here, which is meaningless because you can’t really tweak that much and it’s not contributing to, um, the weight, the financial weight anyway. So having all of that outlined and, um, kind of structurally looking at the different pillars of your, or components of your business and, and see what is the most important thing in each business.

PLR to focus on, it does help a lot and just being able to focus better. 

You’ve achieved an extraordinary amount from the time where you got a bee in your bonnet about this could be the way and you took a really laser focused approach to it to now you’ve got a successful business that’s recognized, it’s awarded, And, and it’s getting the distribution channels that it needs, both locally and internationally.

What’s the future look like for you? 

I think there’s room to innovate even further. I’ve got some very good ideas that I really want to bring it into life. Um, I’m very excited about the export market. Um, the export markets actually, um, we, we see that some, we see that the Korean market, which everyone is amazed that we, how can, how did you get into Korean market?

Like, because the Korean market, as you know, is the world’s number one, uh, skincare market. Um, it’s so competitive and they have such great topical products, and that’s where our supplements, they recognize as something they really value that they, so they, the Koreans actually embracing our products. So I’m starting to spend a bit more time developing that market with local partners.

So back in May, I flew to South Korea for the first time. I met our local distribution partner. So we actually learned a lot meeting with local, um, agencies to actually start, um, building that marketing and the brand awareness locally in Korea. I was really excited about that. And we’re also starting to have, um, activities and feedback from our, uh, some seeding activities that we’ve been doing this year.

in China market. I know China market is very, um, very challenging at the moment, but again, I think, um, talking about, you know, if you have great products, there will be people, you know, China is a very big market. I don’t need to, I don’t need to, you know, I don’t need every single person to be buying Skin Revive, but there are a lot of people with skin problems.

And, and, um, the early feedback is that they’ve to have people. Seeding the market, they’ve signed to trial products, and they’re getting great feedback. And this is in a backdrop where Chinese medicine to treat acne is a thing, but obviously we have a completely different way of treating it, which is, I believe is more superior than Chinese medicine, which more work on energy, whereas we work on a different biochemistry.

Um, so yeah, so I’m very excited about the building and developing the export markets as well as innovating our product range. 

Mm hmm. So. Judy, if we think about, uh, your peers, medium business owners, um, as they’re going along their journey and reflecting on your experience, what would you suggest would be your critical few actions for them if they did nothing else to improve their business?

I believe from my personal journey experience. Develop a personal branding, um, is very important, especially nowadays, the consumers are all, um, listening, um, and, uh, communicating, trying to find out brands all, all across social, especially you have consumer products, but I actually think it’s equally important for B2B service type.

Businesses too, because people talk about the why I think modern consumers and even, you know, even other businesses are buying your services, your, your machines, even they buy from people that they like. So you do have to put yourself out there and make an effort to build a personal branding. 

I 

know it’s difficult.

I know how it’s like, um. I’m actually naturally a shy person. I don’t like putting myself out on social. It took me, obviously, if you wanted to build a skincare brand, it’s almost like you’re working against yourself. So it took me a long time for my team to encourage me. Um, I hate to say it, but it took me a good two years.

They keep pushing me in front of the camera. I said, Oh my God, don’t do that. I said, I don’t like that. Okay, we’ll do it another way. So no, you have to do that. So I guess slowly, slowly, you just have to, um, start changing your mindset. It’s not about you. It’s just start, rather than thinking the spotlight’s on you, it’s not on you.

It’s all about, Um, what you have to offer other people, people want to, want to hear how you’re going to help them, um, how, what you have to offer is going to help them. It’s more about them, not about you. So I think that’s very important. Um, I think also when it comes to forming partnerships, um, it’s also very important.

I think now doing it all yourself on your own, it is actually hard, uh, if you can. formed partnerships with, um, I guess, um, complimentary products where you can leverage on each other’s strengths, um, to grow, be it cashflow, be it people, be it infrastructure, be it network. I think if you can do that, it will help you grow better.

Yeah. Fantastic. Judy, it’s been an absolute delight to talk about this again. This is 

all good. I love it. It’s been 

fantastic. Very much appreciated. 

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

Mhm.