The Never-Ending Pursuit of Perfection – Leadership Insights From Tim Cartwright

EP 6 Lessons in Leadership from 3000 staff and Martial Arts with Tim Cartwright

* Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.
* Great leaders are very, very rare. You need to practise every single day how to become a better leader.
* You don’t lose, you learn.
* You need to have a continuous improvement mindset and you need to be able to look at that failures in life and how you turn them around and turn them into a positive.
* One of the things is you don’t know what people or what is possible to be accomplished. If you don’t give them an opportunity.

I’d like you to meet the leader, Tim Cartwright, General Manager of Fresh Foods at Drake Supermarkets. This is Australia’s leading independent supermarket retailer with over 5 1/2 thousand employees in over 56 sites in South Australia and Queensland. Tim, welcome.
Good to be here John.
So Tim, how did you get to your current leadership position to break it down overall?
Leading is something that I wanted to do from a very young age and that came from my sporting background, played all sports, all the Aussie sports, plus other sports as well, individual sports, team sports. And then I got into martial arts and, and that’s when I really found, you know, a, a love for leadership and a love for learning.
So where I got to today is based on I started off as a 15 year old at Bilo Supermarkets. And worked my way through up until management roles and until I was about 18. From there, you know, I felt, you know, I need to get a, a trade behind me. So I had a look at electricians apprenticeship and I must have performed, you know, relatively well.
So the, the management of Bilo asked me to, you know, stay if possible. When, if it was an apprenticeship I was looking for, they had a butcher’s apprenticeship available. So I took the path and, and became a butcher and it was something that. Within a very short amount of time I was starting to lead meet teams.
And then we transform from BiLo across to Coles supermarkets and worked in a lot of training sort of roles there. And it was about 15 years into my career and I took a step into a more senior role with a company called Metcash who looks after Foodland and the IGA supermarkets. My role there was state manager for SA and NT for fresh food, so meat, seafood, deli, bakery, produce and I ran operational teams, merchandising teams and as a wholesaler and as a marketing agency.
I really had to work strongly, you know, building rapport, building trust with retailers. Who that they were my customers, that was who I was dealing with. So learn, learn a lot in in those 7 1/2 . years I was privileged enough to work all around Australia for that company and then seven years ago, Roger requested a bit of a catch up and two months later I came across to Drakes as their general manager looking after fresh foods and and haven’t looked back since. You know, we’ve got nearly five and a half thousand team members at Drakes. A very large portion of them work in the fresh food departments.
Fresh food distribution centres and and warehouses and processing facilities. And now I lead A-Team, which is just over 3000 strong. So yeah, it’s just one of those things. And the leadership piece, like I said, was something I’ve always had a passion for, became very passionate, not just about supermarkets, but about where food comes from. Provenance and and and transparency around food. So I’m actually, you know, working. In a job that I love, it is something I’m extremely passionate about.
And so who were your early influences in leadership, Tim?
Yeah, look, that is a really good question because when I look back at leaders in my career, they were unfortunately leaders that lacked leading qualities. And what I do take out of that, and I actually thank them for this. I looked at all the traits. That I didn’t like about the way that they managed or leaded or LED A-Team. And a lot of it was based on authoritarian mindset. A lot of it was about, OK, I’m going to rule by fear. And so I took that. And with my martial arts, I have a background in martial arts and, and actually competitive fighting and have have had the privilege of coaching, you know, thousands of different people from all different walks of life.
And so I actually looked elsewhere. For my leadership and my aspiration for leadership, a lot of that came out of sport and a lot of that that came out of, you know, some of the great coaches and, and some of the great competitors around the world. And there was a book that I was reading at the time for martial arts called Art of War.
And, you know, Sun Tzu, you know, 2 1/2 thousand years ago wrote this book, which is just so relevant to this day and age. And there was a piece in there which I used for my, my, my coaching. And it was about, you know, treating your soldiers as if they’re your beloved sons and daughters, and they’ll follow you into the deepest valleys.
And that statement there rang true to me up until today. And it was all about, OK, these leaders that I’m working under or managers I’m working under, they. Ruled by fear. So I noticed that they were not getting the best out of their team members. They definitely weren’t getting the best out of myself. So what I worked on is OK, I’m going to make sure that one day I’m leading a large team and I treat them totally different.
So there was a couple of people through my journey, one of them in particular, who also, he actually employed me at Metcash and he actually had a very different mindset. He, he was a martial artist. And he did support me through my journey through, you know, the trials and tribulations. He didn’t look at if we made a mistake, he didn’t look at that and and want to pound and and, you know, say right, you’ve done the wrong thing.
We looked at it and said, right, how do we fix it? Where do we go? And that was one, one thing that I picked up was, yeah, this I’m on the right track here, being supportive, getting the trust from the team. So for me, I actually was looking at all the leaders around me and looking at. Their flaws and for me developing ways of making sure I didn’t fall into that trap.
I didn’t go down that cultural route because they didn’t know any better. They were ruled by fear in their days and that is why now I’ve changed. And, and one thing I do know, great leaders are very, very rare and you need to practise every single day how to become a better leader and how you can inspire your team and how you can look after your team. So that’s kind of where I’ve come in my way of looking at leaders.
And when you reflect, Tim, what are those critical few attributes of a good leader?
Yeah, look, passion. Without passion you don’t have anything and and being very proactive. So you’ve got to lead by example. And number one is, is being very proactive and very passionate about what you do.
Going through you, you need to be able to delegate and you can not do everything yourself. You need to delegate, and when you delegate, you need to effectively delegate to your team. You need to ensure that you know you have their trust. And leading by example is, is the best way to get that trust you need to be respected.
And by leading by example, one of the things out of this year is there’s a comment I use, I use it for the people I teach, I use it for my kids, and I even use it for my staff. And it is hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard. And it is so true. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve worked with and met a lot of really talented people over my time.

Unfortunately, they’ve never reached their full potential because they haven’t worked hard. So making sure I set that example for my team, make sure I get in there. I’m always the one that they look up to and aspire to be like. And that takes passion. You need to have that passion to do that. So there are a couple of the key things for myself that that I think really makes a good leader.
But definitely making the team feel safe, secure and trusted, making sure we look at all problems proactively, we don’t get bogged down in the negativity is really, really important. You know, if you have the ability to do that, you’ll find that you’ll have much more decisive team members, much more decisive team members that will make decisions.
And you know what, Sometimes you get things wrong. That’s OK. And it’s the way we manage through the losses. It’s a real simple. Anything like I tell all my fighters as well as I do tell all my staff, you don’t lose, you learn. And it’s true, you don’t lose, you learn. You need to have a continuous improvement mindset and you need to be able to look at things where you’ve the failures in life and how you turn them around and turn them into a positive.
So that’s pretty much where I come from. And on some of the the traits that really make a good leader.
Tim, you talk about how you’ve got to be able to delegate. I see that one of the key challenges. As they migrate through their supervisor, manager, leader journey, is he have to be able to delegate well, What do you see as the key factors in effective delegation?
Yeah, look, definitely having the strategy in place and when we go through the delegation process, clearly articulating what the goal is with the team member. Setting the strategy. Setting the structure. What they need to accomplish and then giving each person reacts differently and each person needs to be managed differently.
We take the comment treat people like you want to be treated. That’s a nice place to start. But actually treating people like they want to be treated is the next step. And that is what does actually make a great leader. So working on those people and knowing how they perform at their best and then from there letting them go and keeping them on track, catching up with them.
Being there for assistance, being there for guidance, and then once they have delivered on that goal or that objective of what has been delegated, making sure that we’re checking in and then going back to it and continually improving what we’ve done. One of the things is you don’t know what people are possible or what its possible to be accomplished if you don’t give them an opportunity.
And as long as you give them the right communication, the right goal, and the right piece of information. And follow them through their journey, checking on them when they need. It’s amazing what some people are very capable of. You will not, especially when you grow at scale. You need to ensure that there’s good structure, there’s good strategy, practises and processes in place.
That is really critical. But making sure that this year happens at scale is, is so important. You cannot do everything on your own when you’re a start up and and you’re the CEO and it’s just you absolutely you have to do everything. As you get bigger, you cannot do everything. You need to surround yourself with good people and you need to be able to ensure that you lead by example with them, but actually give them the trust, make them accountable. People want to be held accountable. People like to be held accountable. And you know, if they don’t get it right, we go back, we work on it and make sure that, you know, next time we get better at it. So yeah, delegation is is is so critical, especially at a high level.
Exactly, Tim, I’ve heard that one of the ways to assist a good manager is by the people that they promote and put forward as future leaders. Tim, what are you looking for in your next wave of managers? What are you looking for in the junior burger? Who’s looking to step up even if they’re not sure that they’re ready to step up?
Look, I, I really find EQ over IQ, you know, I, I can teach. And I can train and I can educate, but what is really hard is having the people with the passion, the right behaviours. So that is what we look for, especially when I’m, you know, creating roles or looking to recruit for senior management positions. They need to have the right behaviours, they need to have the passion, they need to have that proactive continuous improvement mindset that that is what we’re looking for. From there, we, we can teach those people anything.
We can put them into training courses, we can work on one on ones to get them to where they need to be. That is where we’re looking at and, and making sure that they fit in the team. Building that team, a high performing team, takes time. And we talk about. Treating your people well enough that they can leave. Sorry, teaching your people or educating your people well enough that they can leave, but treating them so they want to stay. And that is so important for us at Drake ‘s, our employees are our number one asset. They come first over everything and making sure that they are educated, trained. Making sure that they are, you know, felt to feel safe and secure is really important to us.
They’re the people that actually deal with our customers. And if they can’t do that job right, if they’re fearful of what their superiors think, you know, that does not lead to good customer experiences. It does not lead to good employee experiences. So for us, making sure we look after our people, it is the number one thing that we do here at Drakes is look after our people.
Excellent. Thank you. Tim, you’re walking around and every day you’re on display in your organisation. What are the key practises that you like to model for your team as a way to help them to step up?
Yeah. Look, I need to be approachable. That is probably the biggest thing that I did learn from a lot of those poor leaders is they weren’t approachable. Being approachable is is critical and accessible as well. Knowing that anyone, whether. It’s a direct report, indirect report from another pillar can come to me at any time and they feel safe to ask me questions, ask for advice. So being approachable is number one. One of the key things I speak to my team about is the top three and the top three are the top three things that they’re focused on that week, that month, that year, and ensuring that they do their best.
To spend 50% of their time on those top three. And at the end of the week, they actually go back and have a look. Did I spend 50% of my time on those top three things for myself? That’s exactly what I do. I look at three things, business model, operations and talent environment. And I ensure that at the end of each week, did I spend 50% of my time on that?
And was that time, you know, spent on OK, you know, is it accelerated learning that we need, whether it’s a project that we’re working on? Whether it’s the day to day running of the business, but ensuring that the top 350% of the time is spent on the top three. And that’s something that I, I really work hard on with the team. We sit down, we look at their top three. Is it the, the right top three for our business? Is that in line with our, you know, strategic goals and our strategic plans? So there are a couple of things that that we definitely work on and treating the team members. As if, like I said, your beloved sons or daughters is so important.
Making sure that they are accessible as well, making sure that they are approachable. These are some of the key things that we work on. This is what determines culture of a business. It does come from the top down. And if you rule from authority, if you roll out of fear, you’ll never have, you know, some of the best cultures that go around.
So for me, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things and getting that culture right. Starts from that leading from example.
Super and Tim, for any manager aspiring to lead, what should they start doing tomorrow?
Yeah, what they should start doing tomorrow, that real simple one. Look after the people under you, look after those people around you and start to treat people like they want to be treated. That that’s a really important thing. When you put in a manager or leadership position, that is not something to look at as yes, of I’ve accomplished this, I’ve got the power. It’s not that there’s a lot of responsibility. You know you are put into a position of very high responsibility and you need to ensure that you give back to those team members.
We talk about knocking people down. You knock people down to try and bring yourself up. That doesn’t work. The whole idea is to bring those up around you and by doing that they will elevate you. So they need to start looking at things. Continuous in continuous improvement is so important. Not being scared to fail.
I’ll go back to my, you know, my, my coaching and, and fighters having that ability. It’s, you know, 80 percent , 90% of it is in the mind. It is all in the mind and having the mindset that it’s OK, make a decision, go out and if I fail, it’s OK. I’ll still be loved by those around me. I’ll still be respected by those around me. So that’s really important as well, being able to, you know. Make make some decisions, If you get them wrong, it’s not the end of the world.
Can you give me an example of a recent experience you’ve had where you feel you’ve made a real contribution to how a manager got some real insight into how they could improve their management or leadership style?
Yeah, look, there’s many examples and and every day I could bring up an example. I think something that is is really recent is what we’re working on at the moment is is quite a large project for for the Drakes organisation, which is is the Lean Efficiencies Project. This year was with one of my senior operational team members on a big project that we’re working on, the Lean Efficiencies Project.
And what we did, we actually sat down and worked through how we can look at our operations at store and our wage structure differently. And there was a lot of, you know, people don’t know what they don’t know. It’s as simple as that. So in my role, it’s, it’s up to me to ensure that we give people the tools to look at things differently. So we looked at things differently. We took out some emotion. So a lot of decisions we make can involve a lot of emotion. So as a leader, sometimes you need to make some emotionless decisions, then bring in the human element and then make that decision. So we looked at it, you know, without the human element of what was going on and really cut down to process mapping and how we can make things more efficient.

And then by just looking outside of the outside of the square, the team member was able to look at it, take on board some of these things that they’ve never actually thought of before. And then they ran with it. And then I find out they’ve had subsequent meetings from that where they’ve actually spoken to other team members and peers about what we’ve what we’ve spoken about.
That there is for me, something that I get a real kick out of that I really enjoy that I’ve been able to change someone’s mindset to a more positive mindset. To look at things differently and actually go to a place where they weren’t comfortable working in and have made them comfortable with the uncomfortable.
That’s just one of many small things that I can talk on many different occasions on people’s managing, especially being able to make a decision and that they came back to empowering them and giving them my trust so they felt trusted. Today they were capable to make those decisions. And then going back and revisiting those decisions and, you know, were they the right decisions?
Well, yeah, at the time, they’ll have the right decisions. They’re the decisions that we made with all the best information that we had at hand. And, you know, sometimes we don’t get it right. But then not coming down hard on them and looking, OK, how can we make that decision better next time? How can we make a better game plan for that?
So, yeah, when I go back to the teams that I lead and then the sporting people that I coach. It always goes back to. Basic fundamentals and basic fundamentals and practising those basic fundamentals every day is so important. I call it the never ending pursuit to perfection because perfection is an ideal.
It’s not real. So how do we get to that? And there is a quote from Bruce Lee. I fear not the man that has practised 1000 kicks , once but I fear the man. Whose practise one 1000 kick times. And I take from that it’s all about the basic fundamentals and doing your best to perfect the basic fundamentals that they will get you everywhere. So in the coaching that I do, we review all of the basics, whether they’re a beginner or whether they’re, you know, an elite professional athlete. We go over those basics over and over and over again. And. From my point of view.
Continuous improvement and looking at yourself and getting better. At what you do every day is so important. That comes back to passion. You have to have passion about what you do. You have to have passion about life. You have to have passion to be proactive and not look at the negative, but look at the positive and every day look at yourself. What did I achieve today? I am still learning and growing every single day, whether it be at work, whether it be, you know, in my personal life with my family, whether it is as a father teaching, you know, three kids. So looking at yourself and getting better every every day. The never ending pursuit for perfection.
Tim, that’s terrific. You’ve delivered a number of real pearls of wisdom around your approach to leadership. You know, EQ over IQ. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard. Look after the people the way they’d like to be looked after. Be approachable, helping them feel safe and secure. Empowering and giving them my trust that they were safe to make the decisions. The art of and the practise of effective delegation and making sure it’s clear what the expectations are. I love that phrase. You don’t lose, you learn. Tim, do you have any favourite books, videos or authors that you’ve been influenced by that you refer your new emerging or seasoned managers to? Or even the kids that you’re training in the school martial arts programmes that you’re supporting in your spare time as they become more mature sports people?
Yeah, look, for me, the The Art of War by Sun Tzu, I still read that to this day. I listen to it in the car, you know, still quite regularly just because there’s a lot of similarity, whether it’s in sport, whether it’s in business and you take from those messages and and you put it into your own day to day life. So, so definitely that.
Tim, thank you so much for sharing with us today.
I really appreciate it. No worries, John, really appreciate it. Thank you,

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Transcript #CriticalFewActions Ep 6 Tim Cartwright.txt
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